Tvdb changes to a subscribe model

[arcreactor]

@cancerpants

Who is this “we” you speak of? Don’t speak for others.

I guess that would include me. It is more of the fact that I don’t need an explanation, than I don’t want one.

Because I see this as an upgrade from a cluttered database(on Trakt) full of incorrect/duplicate/spam listings(on Trakt) to one that is much better.

The main reason I feel that way is because we only have one main database we are pulling from, we have been able to fix many issues that have arisen that would not have been possible with two conflicting databases.

Before it was a nightmare whenever TVDB and TMDB would have conflicts especially on episode order. For instance you would have episodes with the air-dates, artwork, titles and descriptions all be from different episodes. It was be a mess and the whole listing for the show would quickly become unusable.

IMHO Trakt needed to eventually pick one main database to pull from to avoid these issues and TVDB made that decision for them.

Also if we were still on TVDB stuff like this would still be an issue… Tvdb changes to a subscribe model - #61 by arcreactor

[ImpaktNY48]

It is more of the fact that I don’t need an explanation, than I don’t want one.

Why does your need supercede the userbase being informed about the decisions the service we’re paying for or simply using is making that affects us in a major way?

Because I see this as an upgrade from a cluttered database(on Trakt) full of incorrect/duplicate/spam listings(on Trakt) to one that is much better.

From this thread, the site that is was and is primarily worse was TMDB. Which we found out because we were forced into it.

The main reason I feel that way is because we only have one main database we are pulling from, we have been able to fix many issues that have arisen that would not have been possible with two conflicting databases.

Well yeah because all this hassle wouldn’t be taken place. We’d still primarily be using TVDB as always with TMDB as a secondary. Things weren’t really being “fixed,” as in they were incorrect before. Things were adjusted and changed to conform to TMDB’s way of doing things.

And they don’t even allow a lot of the things TVDB does so conflicts isn’t even a factor in many cases.

Before it was a nightmare whenever TVDB and TMDB would have conflicts especially on episode order.

Wait was it? It being wrong on TMDB was barely even mattered because we just mainly used TVDB.

IMHO Trakt needed to eventually pick one main database to pull from to avoid these issues

Or Trakt could not put all their eggs in one basket and be better at handling two databases.

Also if we were still on TVDB stuff like this would still be an issue

This is a very specific problem. I Am Groot is another example. The solution is a rule to handle this, not to throw out a whole database.

Apologies for quoting almost everything lmao. But as a wise man once said, you know I had to do it to em.

[arcreactor]

@ImpaktNY48

Apologies for quoting almost everything lmao.

You’re good, it makes me have to clarify my point, also… same here

@cancerpants

Who is this “we” you speak of? Don’t speak for others.

@ImpaktNY48

I guess that would include me. It is more of the fact that I don’t need an explanation, than I don’t want one.

Why does your need supercede the userbase being informed about the decisions the service we’re paying for or simply using is making that affects us in a major way?

*Lack of need

Trakt has been pretty clear, they didn’t want to pay for API access/didn’t like how it was handled by TVDB. What else is there to be explained/transparent/informed about? Am I missing something?

@ImpaktNY48

Because I see this as an upgrade from a cluttered database(on Trakt) full of incorrect/duplicate/spam listings(on Trakt) to one that is much better.

From this thread, the site that is was and is primarily worse was TMDB. Which we found out because we were forced into it.

I am saying that Trakt had a worse database than ether service by using both TVDB and TMDB, and needed to pick one. I am not comparing TVDB to TMDB.

@ImpaktNY48

Well yeah because all this hassle wouldn’t be taken place. We’d still primarily be using TVDB as always with TMDB as a secondary.

@ImpaktNY48

Before it was a nightmare whenever TVDB and TMDB would have conflicts especially on episode order.

Wait was it? It being wrong on TMDB was barely even mattered because we just mainly used TVDB.

Unfortunately they were both being used quite equally. We would get artwork from one, we would use air dates and titles from the other etc. There was and still is a bunch of mismatch.

See here as an example… VeggieTales: All Episodes - Trakt it has not been fixed even now due to the work required to fix the mismatch. I can get you plenty more examples if you would like.

Most importantly when one didn’t have info it would fall back to the other database.

@ImpaktNY48

And they don’t even allow a lot of the things TVDB does so conflicts isn’t even a factor in many cases.

They do allow the majority though and as I mentioned before, we would get artwork from one, we would use air dates and titles from the other etc. If only one episode was off it would throw off an entire show.

@ImpaktNY48

Things weren’t really being “fixed,” as in they were incorrect before. Things were adjusted and changed to conform to TMDB’s way of doing things.

On the contrary there is many listings on Trakt that were incorrect before and needed updating.
When there is a discrepancy you have to find the correct info and change TVDB or TMDB to what is correct otherwise you cannot transition properly.

@ImpaktNY48

IMHO Trakt needed to eventually pick one main database to pull from to avoid these issues

Or Trakt could not put all their eggs in one basket and be better at handling two databases.

I see what you mean, it is good to have a backup. But that would be incredibly difficult due to previously mentioned reasons. It is easier to manage one basket than two with the exact same egg(show) in both.

@ImpaktNY48

Also if we were still on TVDB stuff like this would still be an issue… Tvdb changes to a subscribe model - #61 by arcreactor

This is a very specific problem. I Am Groot is another example. The solution is a rule to handle this, not to throw out a whole database.

Well… actually this issue was with what I mentioned earlier with Trakt having the same ID for the content on both TMDB and TVDB and there being inconsistency. There was no way to even add the correct shows as it would just link to the original listing.

With I am Groot, it was advertised as a show but changed it before release to be a bunch of short films. In this case with two databases it would have made two different listings on Trakt with no way of removing the incorrect one. It is correct on Trakt now due to only having one database. I am Groot Collection

[ImpaktNY48]

@arcreactor

Trakt has been pretty clear, they didn’t want to pay for API access/didn’t like how it was handled by TVDB. What else is there to be explained/transparent/informed about? Am I missing something?

I’ve been discussing this just above and the past two years.

What you’re missing is what we’re all missing. A proper explanation on why they didn’t even call TVDB for a full picture. Why it was worth implementing a major shift in the site and passing on hundreds of hours of work on to its users in order to avoid even a call, let alone an actual deal.

Basic transparency and clarity. What I expect from any other company.

We would get artwork from one, we would use air dates and titles from the other etc.

This is a very clear distinction on what we get from both services. We got air dates and titles from one service, which was TVDB, and artwork from TMDB.

VeggieTales: All Episodes - Trakt it has not been fixed even now due to the work required to fix the mismatch.

Thank you for showing illustrating what I was saying.

This entry is using TVDB. So the issue here, the “fix,” is to change it and conform to TMDB’s way of doing things.

It’s using TVDB, which is so weird like wtf two episodes are marked season finale, and work needs to be done in order to transition them into TMDB.

So to be clear, the entry on Trakt is not unusable because there exists two databases. It is pulling from TVDB just fine. It is unusable because TVDB is wrong.

This nuance is important because it does not support the position that we should leave TVDB. Because foregoing an entire database because of one series is not reasonable.

On the contrary, this supports the position of there needing to be multiple databases. Because there are plenty of entries that are incorrect on TMDB.

They do allow the majority though

They absolutely do not as I’ve been saying.

we would get artwork from one, we would use air dates and titles from the other etc. If only one episode was off it would throw off an entire show.

Off in what way? You have all the air dates and titles from one. You can track it just fine if you simply don’t have artwork from the other.

On the contrary there is many listings on Trakt that were incorrect before and needed updating.
When there is a discrepancy you have to find the correct info and change TVDB or TMDB to what is correct otherwise you cannot transition properly.

Right this is what I was saying, hence the emphasis. Yes, you need to update TVDB or TMDB with the goal of conforming to TMDB so the transition to TMDB can go through.

But that would be incredibly difficult due to previously mentioned reasons.

Trakt can do it. They’ve been doing it before TVDB decided to do this. And they have a dedicated moderator now.

With I am Groot, it was advertised as a show but changed it before release to be a bunch of short films. In this case with two databases it would have made two different listings on Trakt with no way of removing the incorrect one.

Listings can absolutely be removed on Trakt tho? Make a rule to follow whatever database and delete the listing created as a result of the other database.

[arcreactor]

@ImpaktNY48

Why it was worth implementing a major shift in the site and passing on hundreds of hours of work on to its users in order to avoid even a call, let alone an actual deal.

TVDB was pretty clear they were going to start charging for their basic service. At the end of the day that is $ out of Trakt’s bottom line.

@ImpaktNY48

We would get artwork from one, we would use air dates and titles from the other etc.

This is a very clear distinction on what we get from both services. We got air dates and titles from one service, which was TVDB, and artwork from TMDB.

That’s what I said…
Also don’t forget that if there was missing info it was filled in by the alternative source whether it was right or not.

@ImpaktNY48

So to be clear, the entry on Trakt is not unusable because there exists two databases. It is pulling from TVDB just fine. It is unusable because TVDB is wrong.

@ImpaktNY48

Off in what way? You have all the air dates and titles from one. You can track it just fine if you simply don’t have artwork from the other.

I stand by what I said, it is because it is pulling from multiple databases. For instance which episode is LarryBoy and the Bad Apple? Just looking at the art you would say s1e34, if you look at the title it would be s1e24.

@ImpaktNY48

This nuance is important because it does not support the position that we should leave TVDB. Because foregoing an entire database because of one series is not reasonable.

Not what I said…
I said we needed to leave one or the other. And not because of just one series because of multiple.

@ImpaktNY48

On the contrary there is many listings on Trakt that were incorrect before and needed updating.
When there is a discrepancy you have to find the correct info and change TVDB or TMDB to what is correct otherwise you cannot transition properly.

Right this is what I was saying, hence the emphasis. Yes, you need to update TVDB or TMDB with the goal of conforming to TMDB so the transition to TMDB can go through.

You are not conforming to TMDB if you have to change TMDB. Even if we were not switching to TMDB to have Trakt correct you would still need to fix discrepancies between the two for data to display properly on Trakt.

@ImpaktNY48

Listings can absolutely be removed on Trakt tho? Make a rule to follow whatever database and delete the listing created as a result of the other database.

As far as I am aware it was not possible at the time, don’t know if that changed.

@ImpaktNY48

They do allow the majority though

They absolutely do not as I’ve been saying.

TMDB has more TV shows/movies/people, they are in the lead except for episodes…

General FAQ — The Movie Database (TMDB)

https://thetvdb.com/about

[ImpaktNY48]

TVDB was pretty clear they were going to start charging for their basic service. At the end of the day that is $ out of Trakt’s bottom line.

Trakt is a for profit business with expense, which are all money out of Trakt’s bottom line.

For instance which episode is LarryBoy and the Bad Apple? Just looking at the art you would say s1e34, if you look at the title it would be s1e24.

You asked me about an episode title. Why would anyone look at just the art to answer that question instead of what you asked for, the episode title?

It’s s1e24 because that’s what it is in the database it’s pulling from, TVDB. The issue is not because it is pulling from multiple databases. It doesn’t even have an episode image on Trakt. I reloaded multiple times and it’s just the series image.

And title cards as episode images aren’t allowed in TVDB. Is the image on there not from the episode?

Not what I said…
I said we needed to leave one or the other. And not because of just one series because of multiple.

You are advocating leaving TVDB and having one “much better” database, TMDB, with individual examples like VeggieTales. The one example you gave does not support your position.

I have come across instances where the title was from TVDB and the image was from TMDB. But that doesn’t make the entry unusable as you said. This is what support tickets are for. You can just follow the episode titles and submit a support ticket to have the image fixed. And in cases like this where the database needs to be changed, make the case for that.

Like if this transition never happened, would you just not care about VeggieTales and let it go? Of course not, you’d still be asking for it to change to TMDB because TVDB is wrong.

You are not conforming to TMDB if you have to change TMDB.

You have to follow TMDB’s rules and their way of doing things if you are using TMDB and are having Trakt use it.

Even if we were not switching to TMDB to have Trakt correct you would still need to fix discrepancies between the two for data to display properly on Trakt.

Again, there are entries wrong in TMDB. There will still be discrepancies and incorrect entries on Trakt after the switch.

As far as I am aware it was not possible at the time, don’t know if that changed.

I have been seeing listings get removed for years.

TMDB has more TV shows/movies/people, they are in the lead except for episodes

Episodes are pretty important yeah? And TMDB is not as open as TVDB in what is allowed.

[Nescobar-A-Lop-Lop]

Animes is niche? We’re back in the early 90s again?!

[ImpaktNY48]

This thread being bumped reminded me they missed their deadline yet again. Almost 2 years of this. From March 2021 to October 2021 to first half of 2022 to end of 2022.

[sp1ti]

Really strange what they’re doing with the site to be honest. Haven’t seen a new cutoff date announced for it and the site updates are not really giving me the impression they’re trying too hard. And after supposedly hiring professional moderators support tickets are just gathering dust over there too…

I honestly haven’t bothered with the trakt TMDB comparison in recent months but to my shock we’re still looking at a whooping 67’182 problem items to fix. Anyhow, I took this occasion to fix up some of my related content with some basic macros and gotta say, kudos to the trakt moderation queue → you’re fast and take the extra steps needed to move the plays around which enables us to actually tackle this .
That said, I’m still of the opinion, that we have to sift trough way too much shit in the “missing on TMDB” section. I’ve nagged about this before but please let us categorize this stuff and have a clear path forward with them. Consider adding a status “Legacy show” to establish titles which are not allowed on TMDB so they don’t show up anymore (going by the first couple of https://trakt.tv/transition/tmdb/missing that would be things like Abridged series, Youtube shows, Podcasts, etc.) and maybe even something like “Bundle/Master collection” to flag items which are not technically missing on TMDB but need to be split up and transferred to the appropriate titles! This way we would slowly but surely find out what is actually still missing or not yet linked up over there!

[mutantpanda68 (Fletcher)]

I like the idea of “legacy shows” It would be a great way to handle stuff like Looney Tunes, Tom & Jerry, MGM Cartoons, and Disney Animated Shorts that TMDB doesn’t consider series because they predate TV.