Tvdb changes to a subscribe model

Trakt Questions & Help
430

Not being patronising at all just stating plain facts and trying to help you.
If people can’t be bothered to load the information on to the database it will never be correct, that work needs to be done on whichever database you use.

I feel for you if you spent all that time loading information on to TVDB, but as anything on TVDB was transferred to Trakt and the comparison done to compare TVDB to TMDB, how is that time you spent all wasted.

As for the Larkins that you have mentioned, TMDB actually has more episodes than TVDB (see the comparison) so moving this show to TMDB is actually a bonus for you in this instance.
The fact that you believe it to be behind as far as episodes on TMDB is concerned is probably because no one has loaded that info, just the same as it’s not loaded on TVDB.

If there are any other main stream programs that you think are missing data let us know and I’ll see if I can have a look at them for you (not promising but could try).

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431

Perfectly fine to ask all these questions. However, I’m not going to provide details on business discussions we’ve had behind the scenes regarding TMDB vs. TVDB. We decided switching to TMDB as the primary TV data source makes the most sense for Trakt.

Regarding data issues, the best way to alert us is using the report button on every movie, show, season, and episode page. We have a dedicated Trakt employee that helps clean things up like merging, re-ordering, etc. It’s best to have TMDB updated first of course, but we have certain things we can lock or override as needed based on those reports.

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432

Is the “we” here you and the Trakt team? Because if so, this is not what I am asking for. I’m just asking if you contacted TVDB. Not about any further details on internal discussions except for some explanation if the answer is no. TVDB being too expensive is an obvious conclusion if the answer is yes.

The decisions you made as a result of these discussions resulted in a lot of work needing to be done by your users as this two year long thread shows. Again it is not unreasonable for me to insist on some details on why you did this. Hell, I’ll go so far as to say we deserve one.

I’m asking for some basic transparency here. As you’ve shown plenty of times in this forum about other topics. Why are you drawing such a hard line and deeming it unacceptable to share details about something as important as the source of the data for the site? Arguably the most important thing.

We need your side of the story, because we already have an answer from TVDB. They claimed they tried to contact you and you ghosted them. Are they lying? They claimed that they were willing to talk and make a favorable deal. Why not even try to take them up on their offer?

What TVDB claimed does not make you look good.

Plus series on TVDB and not on TMDB are being deleted on Trakt, contrary to what was said earlier in this thread. I’d also like an explanation for that.

Please address this.

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433

Why you loose all this time and effort and be pissed about this.
Is someone forcing you to use Trakt ? go to T, tvmaze, the pogdesign how it is called.

i mean too much effort in writing rants on why and how and i feel you are doing wrong with all this anger. Address your anger in filling TMDB or find another site.

And that is not a mainstream show. Also as you ensist on giving you answerts on something that really doesn’t matter let’s talk again about all this

please for each bullet give an example

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434

No, someone is forcing me to use TMDB. That’s kind of the problem here.

And that is not a mainstream show.

You keep on bringing this up as if it matters. So what if it’s not a mainstream show? Everything should be accurate.

Also as you ensist on giving you answerts on something that really doesn’t matter

The source of the data for the site is something that really doesn’t matter? How absurd.

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435

What is the definition of a mainstream show?

This show airs in prime time on a Sunday evening on our biggest commercial broadcaster (2nd biggest broadcaster overall)

The rest of your post is just an angry rant, so will ignore it

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436

Can we please stop feeding the vampire? It’ll never end in a way that satisfies anyone.

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437

ImpaktNY48 writes “Did you speak to TVDB to negotiate an actual price for the new API, and then decide to make the transition to TMDB due to the price being too high?” The answer lies in the initial post about the transition: What it really boils down to is a moral opposition to taking in data from a community and then trying to sell it back to them. We believe when a user contributes to an online data source, they mean for that work to be shared with everyone around them. Both TMDB and Trakt have open and free APIs for developers to build upon that hard work.

The answer is, ultimately: it doesn’t matter what price TVDB offers Trakt (and thus it doesn’t matter if Trakt reached out to TVDB before, after, during, or ever): TVDB could have even offered free access to Trakt, but Trakt would still have been morally opposed to using TVDB. There’s the answer. It doesn’t matter if TVDB became free for Trakt, it doesn’t matter if TVDB had better data, it doesn’t matter if TMDB accepts YouTube shows or not, it matters solely on Trakt’s moral compass.

The only option is to convince TMDB to force their API to be paid. Then, Trakt would have the same moral opposition to TMDB’s policies, and they’d initiate another round of R&D to find someone else to source data from. But, given TVDB’s unchanged approach to monetizing their API, Trakt still wouldn’t pick TVDB.

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438

Is that a royal we? Who is this “we” you speak of? Don’t speak for others :joy:

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439

Who’s the vampire? I can certainly think of some ways where I’ll be satisfied. I’ve described them in this thread.

Yeah I get the moral opposition, but the data source is so significant for the site that it should still be fully explored.

I respect your morals and I honestly don’t disagree with what was said about TVDB, but sometimes as a business you need to compromise. Like when you need to implement a major change that results in a lot of disruption and work laid on your users.

In said initial announcement they say,

The first option is a commercial agreement with an app directly, but we’ve heard TVDB is asking for unrealistic licensing fees compared to an app’s revenue.

So the option is there. And I guess we know the answer is no. Justin relied on hearsay instead of just contacting TVDB. That’s not a good thing.

And again TVDB claimed otherwise. They said they were not offering unreasonable fees and have reached agreements.

If you called TVDB and they did give you an unreasonable fee, that would only support your position.

The only option is to convince TMDB to force their API to be paid. Then, Trakt would have the same moral opposition to TMDB’s policies, and they’d initiate another round of R&D to find someone else to source data from.

This sounds absolutely horrible. How about we avoid the R&D in favor of stability? Sounds great to me.

Who is this “we” you speak of?

All Trakt users. You may not care at all about getting an actual explanation, but I think we (oh no I said it) should get one.

440

WE really don’t care that much. It is what it is, Trakt works and that’s all WE care about.

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441

It’s ridiculous that I’m defending myself so much for asking for some basic transparency about something incredibly significant.

If you don’t care, you’re free to just not comment. You can not care and also not admonish me for caring. Nothing I’m saying or asking for is unreasonable.

inb4 “But you said we and we includes me and I don’t care”

Doesn’t matter. You’re a Trakt user and all users should get an explanation.

And Trakt isn’t going to work for the many series that aren’t on TMDB as has been discussed numerous times in this thread and elsewhere. That’s kind of the problem.

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442

It’s ridiculous that I’m defending myself so much for asking for some basic transparency about something incredibly significant.

The issue is that you’re unwilling to accept the explanation that was given. You keep asking the same specific question over and over again, hinging desperately on whether Trakt called TVDB about a mythical price, when the explanation that was given is that a call or the price wouldn’t have mattered at all. You’ve even just today answered the question yourself, now, after years of beating the “that doesn’t look good” drum, when that drum isn’t worth a damn: Trakt is diametrically opposed to what TVDB did. Why would they bother or give a damn about what sorta “deals” TVDB can get them on the phone? They wouldn’t. In the eyes of Trakt, TVDB made a dishonorable mistake, and Trakt isn’t going to go back, even at the cost of upsetting their users. Your mentality is that Trakt made a bad data-driven mistake, but you’re unwilling to move on, waiting desperately for your righteous AHA! moment, as if that’s gonna change anything. It’s not. For all the “understanding” and “respect” you claim about Trakt’s morals, you seem awfully hopefully that they’re gonna reneg on those morals, simply because TVDB gives them a better price. They’re not.

Does it suck that TMDB doesn’t allow some YouTube shows? Or that some of the “shows” I watch are split up annoyingly on TMDB? Sure, absolutely. Is it gonna kill me that I have to keep a separate list of my RiffTrax or The Last Drive-In or YouTube watches? No. But I certainly don’t need further details or understanding than what was already given. I certainly don’t care whether Trakt called TVDB. Trakt made a line in the sand, deciding that the “cost” (quoted deliberately, as I’m not just talking “price” here) of doing business with TVDB was morally egregious. I happen to agree with that decision, TMDB warts and all. You don’t, and that’s OK too! But you’re not gonna get your Phoenix Wright moment.

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443

The issue is that you’re unwilling to accept the explanation that was given.

Yes, and I explained why. Now the issue is that I’m somehow in the wrong for wanting further details. For not just shutting up and accepting this major shift in the website without a full explanation.

I’ve addressed everything you said in the first paragraph.

when the explanation that was given is that a call or the price wouldn’t have mattered at all

Again, sometimes as a business you need to compromise. And if TVDB was contacted and a favorable price was given, maybe that would’ve happened. I want to know why this possibility wasn’t even afforded as it should have been.

I want to know why passing hundreds of hours of work to its users was worth it. The moral opposition was selling user inputted data (which they’re only doing just via). Why is mandating hours of unpaid volunteer work to maintain the site as a result of your decision better? The cost isn’t just “upsetting their users.”

Don’t pretend that if Trakt came out and said they made a deal you’d be here right now saying they should stick by their morals and cut off TVDB. No, if they said that everyone would be fine with it and would’ve moved on.

Also, this isn’t even true. In the link you gave they gave two options about paying and one of the explanations was the unreasonable fee. The price absolutely matters.

You’ve even just today answered the question yourself, now, after years of beating the “that doesn’t look good” drum

I know. In my first comment where I directly asked him, I said I knew the answer was likely no. As I said, I wanted a direct answer from him and his side of things.

Your mentality is that Trakt made a bad data-driven mistake, but you’re unwilling to move on

Oh my god I can’t move on because there are shows on TVDB and not on TMDB and there is no plan for this. That’s. The. Problem. This isn’t an insignificant issue!

For all the “understanding” and “respect” you claim about Trakt’s morals, you seem awfully hopefully that they’re gonna reneg on those morals

I literally said they should compromise.

And btw, Trakt is seemingly reneging on their own word regarding TVDB entries that weren’t transferred to TMDB not being deleted.

But I certainly don’t need further details or understanding than what was already given. I certainly don’t care whether Trakt called TVDB.

So as I told the other user, stop commenting. You can not care and also not admonish me for caring.

But you’re not gonna get your Phoenix Wright moment.

Said the person trying to get a gotcha on me when I made my position incredibly clear.

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444

Νο! do no speak for other users. As many many posted WE DO NOT CARE! i do not need an explanation.

And as someone said “stop feeding the vampire”, i’m sorry

@justin since i’m the original TS can i lock this. It served it purpose people who want to rant and speak in general about shows noone is heard about or WHY we do not have TVDB and probably have a gun on their head to stay at trakt, but nooooo just stay, i will bitch about staying they can open another thread called “please please give me an explanation”

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445

I agree for the most part. However, just because “it’s a show no one has heard about” doesn’t make that show any less valid. I do not require an explanation from @justin though. I’ve long accepted this is just how it is. I still haven’t decided if I’m going to resume adding episodes to my shows that no one has ever heard of.

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446

Again this doesn’t matter. Businesses aren’t exempt from basic transparency because some users don’t care. I will speak for all users because I think all users deserve a full explanation. And I’m not going to stop thinking that because a handful of people in the VIP forums out of 8 million don’t care.

There are way more than a handful who do care and will be affected. Many that may not even know this is happening. Actually wait there you go. Let’s make “we” everyone affected by the TVDB cut off. That should do it.

If Justin provides an explanation, feel free to put your fingers in your ears and look away.

Again with the being forced to use Trakt. I responded to that already. And I’m staying on Trakt because, brace yourself, I enjoy the service. And there aren’t any like it. No other service has tracking as robust as Trakt.

If you want to selfishly lock a three year old thread even though the issue hasn’t been fully resolved, go ahead I guess but please don’t. I have no idea why you think something matters less just because it committed the sin of not being as mainstream.

Like my god why are you so angry? Like I’m sorry for including you as a Trakt user goddamn. You don’t care? As I told two other users, stop commenting. You can not care and also not admonish me for caring.

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447

I am finding tmdb far worse in quality than what we had before

New shows are missing
New seasons are missing
New episodes are missing
No details for episodes
Random run times
Shows that ended decades ago suddenly having unwatched episodes

Apart from run time, the above are mostly correct on tvdb

In my experience, neither site is perfect. I run another app that relies on TVDB, and when I look at upcoming episodes, consistently find stuff that TMDB has that TVDB doesn’t, and vice versa. I go to whichever site is missing information and update it (or submit a ticket if they’ve locked it for whatever reason), and move on with my day.

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448

Who is this “we” you speak of? Don’t speak for others.

449

I find it very strange that so many paying users are opposed to understanding what the business chose to do with our money, when other apps I pay to use simply offer the ability to use TMDB, TVDB, even TVMaze and others so I don’t have to worry about who is missing what. The ardent desire to stay misinformed and jump down someone’s throat for wanting a clarity other developers, and even this developer, elsewhere, would offer freely is so, so strange.

Maybe this is why it took so long to join the forum even when I was paying before. Caring about things is actually okay sometimes.

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