What is the status on having an actual consistent policy on YouTube series and Podcast content?

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Last time this was discussed it was made clear that it’s pretty much “we don’t have a policy but we’ll delete it if it’s reported because I think it should based on guidance I let no one know about” and that is unacceptable.

That seems to still be in place because yet again another YouTube series has been deleted.

I’m sick of randomly finding out a series I’ve added and been updating for years has been deleted because someone disagreed it belongs here and the moderator agreed for completely unknown reasons.

So please make it clear what your policy is, apply the rules consistently instead of being unfair by basing it on popularity, and stop having moderators delete series based on rules completely unknown to its userbase. And maybe restore the series you deleted if they didn’t need to be.

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TMDB is the main database we use, so we follow their rules. In some cases, we leave stuff with eventual plans to merge it into other entries.

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When did you communicate this? This is a drastic change. A complete reversal of previous communication.

This also simply isn’t true. You have your own inconsistent rules. You leave stuff when there’s a lot of plays for example.

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So are all YouTube series and podcasts getting deleted instead of staying on as is?

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Where has that been said though?

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Where has what been said?

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What is on second…

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Any answer?

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Podcasts aren’t TV shows, so those should always be deleted. YouTube shows are touchy, but in general shouldn’t be there either. We’re not planning to mass deleted this content, but when reported we will look into it and use our best judgement.

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So the answer is no progress.

Podcasts aren’t TV shows, so those should always be deleted.

So delete Joe Rogan Experience, Rooster Teeth Podcast , and H3 Podcast.

Or, considering they have tens of thousands of plays each, you can understand that people use trakt for podcasts and not delete them in favor of moving them to their own section as you yourself suggested.

YouTube shows are touchy, but in general shouldn’t be there either. We’re not planning to mass deleted this content, but when reported we will look into it and use our best judgement.

Right so as I said, you don’t have a policy but you’ll delete it if it’s reported based on guidance no one knows about. Inconsistent guidelines at that.

Again, this is unacceptable.

How do you look into it? What informs your judgement?

I ask again, when did you communicate any of this? You were wishy washy about this in the past so having a hard stance now should be communicated. Especially because YouTube series and podcasts are all over Trakt and people use the site to track them. There is no way you don’t know such series are on the site.

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I’m not really sure what answer you’re looking for. I’m not going to institute a hard line policy saying all these will be immediately deleted. We try and keep data whenever relevant, which is why we handle it as part of the moderation process.

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I’m not really sure what answer you’re looking for.

I explicitly asked for the guidelines you give moderators and why you haven’t been communicative about them.

I’m not going to institute a hard line policy saying all these will be immediately deleted

You literally just said podcasts should always be deleted.

How about a policy. Anything. Because what we have right now a completely inconsistent policy based on guidance no one knows about.

We try and keep data whenever relevant, which is why we handle it as part of the moderation process.

What’s relevant? How is it handled?

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It sounds like @ImpaktNY48 is just wanting to know where the cut off is for content like this and well… fair enough. Most of the time I don’t even mess with trying to improve the data on this kind of stuff as I don’t know if it will stay up or not.

Perhaps there should be a new category called Web Series/Video Podcasts. Just treat the content just like a TV Show on the back end but in search just have another filter…

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Just my 2 cents :man_shrugging:

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Podcasts are not TV shows, they are predominantly audio and closer to a radio program in format and structure. Just like Netflix is an on-demand, streaming service akin to timed TV broadcasts, podcasting is an on-demand, streaming service akin to timed radio broadcasts. The existence of video feeds for some shows doesn’t change that since almost every video podcast will also be provided in an audio-only option to avoid alienating potential listeners.

I’m sure there are services that track radio shows and podcasts, but TMDB isn’t one of those services. Since Trakt doesn’t want to be its own database, there would first have to be a service that offered that data via an api either for free or for really cheap before they would consider adding a category for it.

YouTube is often regarded as “tricky”, but it really isn’t. YouTube isn’t considered a professional platform because it’s an amateur platform open to everyone without any vetting beyond openly illegal and morally damaging content (the latter being so loosely defined and poorly policed that it’s almost not even a rule). It doesn’t matter how professionally-done a channel is or how much money is funneled into it, it’s on a platform that is universally categorized with TikTok and Twitch, not HBO or Disney+.

I say that having many, many YouTubers and channels that I love and follow religiously. I have never felt like a service like Trakt should keep… track of all of that. And the times I do see a YouTube series here and start to think I should keep track of it I pull back because I realize how different it is from the shows I watch on TV and streaming services, and feel like I would just be junking up my watch history with a very sporadic and temporary list of some web videos when it’s already a full-time job to keep my viewing history organized and somewhat comprehensive.

Again, I assume there are services that track that stuff. But because tracking YouTube channels and video is a thousand times more arduous and uncertain than actual TV and cinema, I understand why TMDB or Trakt (or most anybody) doesn’t want to open that can of worms.

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Podcasts are not TV shows, they are predominantly audio and closer to a radio program in format and structure.

Podcasts are audio programs that release episodes regularly. Their structure works with the utility trakt provides, proven by the thousands of people that use the site for podcasts as linked above.

Since Trakt doesn’t want to be its own database, there would first have to be a service that offered that data via an api either for free or for really cheap before they would consider adding a category for it.

Trakt shouldn’t be beholden to other site’s rules. Instead they should have their own based on user behavior and the utility of the site. Just because TVDB was cut off doesn’t mean existing data that people use should be deleted.

I say that having many, many YouTubers and channels that I love and follow religiously. I have never felt like a service like Trakt should keep… track of all of that

You don’t. Many people do feel like that. Just like podcasts the utility trakt provides works for it.

And the times I do see a YouTube series here and start to think I should keep track of it I pull back because I realize how different it is from the shows I watch on TV and streaming services, and feel like I would just be junking up my watch history with a very sporadic and temporary list of some web videos

So create a new category.

But because tracking YouTube channels and video is a thousand times more arduous and uncertain than actual TV and cinema

As someone updating dozens and dozens of channels for years, it’s not that bad. Would be a lot easier if there was a new category.

doesn’t want to open that can of worms

The can is already open. We just need clarification on the worms. Podcasts and YouTube series exist on trakt and are being handled via reports just like TV series. The real can of worms is this completely subjective gatekeeping that will be inconsistent. Instead just allow the content since trakt works for it and it’s up to the user to add the info in the first place.

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As much as I appreciate a point-by-point rebuttal, they are very hard to read during a move. :wink:

Understand that I do respect your passion about this. I’m not against you, I’m just emphasizing things that I feel you’ve overlooked. The problem with your argument is that you are almost completely correct about everything. Almost, except for two very important things.

Podcasts & YouTube (and everything like YouTube) are intrinsically different from mainstream media. They are different logistically, they are different socially. That’s why I said what I said, it seemed like your argument hinged on a misunderstanding of that.

More importantly… being right about the importance of those two categories does not make Trakt beholden to add them as categories to the site. You can argue point by point, up and down, all day and all night, and it is still not your call. All you can do is suggest and hope. And getting upset about it, especially to other people who have no say in the matter, doesn’t help anything. Express your dissatisfaction through action, rather than just words.

Trakt seems to be very specifically about TV & movies for the time being. There are many people, including myself, who have suggested tracking other (far more important) categories, like books, music, and games. Those categories are probably not going to get added either, despite how meaningful they would be to the existing community.

Personally, I would rather Trakt address long-standing issues with the media they already do track than add entire new categories (with their own unique problems, inconstancies, and missing data) and be forced to divide their attention between everything even further.

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Podcasts & YouTube (and everything like YouTube) are intrinsically different from mainstream media. They are different logistically, they are different socially

Wait first of all, it’s 2023. Podcasts and YouTube are mainstream media.

I’m going to assume you meant traditional media, TV shows and movies.

I did not say that. I said their structure works for the utility trakt provides. That does not mean I’m claiming they’re intrinsically the same or that my argument hinges on it because it doesn’t need to be for my point to be true.

To your point,

Why does it matter if they’re different socially? Mainstream media release a variety of content that is looked at differently by everyone.

Logistically, they’re not that different, especially podcasts. They have episodes that typically come out every week and some have clearly defined seasons. YouTube series release new content with a varied schedule that can be tracked as it comes out.

being right about the importance of those two categories does not make Trakt beholden to add them as categories to the site

The main thing I am asking for is a clear and consistent policy.

The fact that these types of content exist on the site and are being actively used by users means that Trakt should at least provide clear and consistent rules. Because as I said in my initial post, the way it works now is unacceptable.

Express your dissatisfaction through action, rather than just words.

That’s literally what I’m doing by posting here asking for clarification from the developer of Trakt.

There are many people, including myself, who have suggested tracking other (far more important) categories, like books, music, and games. Those categories are probably not going to get added either, despite how meaningful they would be to the existing community.

Books, music and games aren’t “far” more important than podcasts and YouTube.

Including me as well.

Personally, I would rather Trakt address long-standing issues with the media they already do track

This is what I’m asking for. The media they already do track includes YouTube series and podcasts and they never had actual rules regarding it.

add entire new categories (with their own unique problems, inconstancies, and missing data) and be forced to divide their attention between everything even further.

Trakt isn’t its own database. The missing data will be up to users to add.

And inconsistencies already exist right now with what’s being deleted.

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