Not missing it. But there is a misunderstanding on the type of third parties and the fact you think they are funded by your VIP subscription.
This is not the case!
Agreed! And this is exactly what is happening.
I disagree. Funding means Trakt would use your money for something you are not interested in. Revenue Sharing means part of the revenue is shared in a win-win situation because a user is actively choosing and actively engaging with the app.
You are saying Trakt is funding, Iām saying Trakt is sharing the revenue via referral links.
Letās take a step back maybe: Trakt doesnāt have a Marketing team. The Public API and third-party developers have always been a way for Trakt to acquire new users. Here, with the program, some apps will be rewarded with a part of the revenue of the users that came through those apps. This is a pretty standard and interesting model for Trakt, the third party developers and the users.
Iām sorry you feel like this, but you are free to go somewhere else that better suits you.
This is almost an impossible conversation to have without someone sharing confidential commercial information, which Iām sure Trakt wonāt do. So, hereās an illustration of a āpossibleā revenue sharing model between Trakt and Ripple.
Trakt could agree to pay Ripple 20Ā¢ for each Trakt VIP member that connects their account to Ripple, and 20Ā¢ for each month thereafter where they remain connected. Therefore only Trakt VIP members that are actively using Ripple have any of there VIP subscription contribute to Ripple. Other VIPs are not contributing.
This model would seem to address your concerns? Only those using Ripple with Trakt generate any revenue share, those that donāt arenāt generating any contribution. If zero Trakt VIPs used Ripple, then zero revenue would be shared.
My reply is to help people understand the difference between funding a third party development vs revenue sharing in a typical commercial agreement, since many were mistakenly saying they are the same. The difference isnāt semantic, but operationally very different.
With a revenue share, the share wouldnāt normally equate to the āvalueā of the third party service. In fact they almost never would, as itās of bi-directional benefit. The figures I used were only to illustrate the concept though. The revenue share would almost certainly be way lower than the assumptions in your example. Anyhow, as I said - just trying to help people understand the commercial differences between funding and revenue share in business.
Maybe Iām misreading what Kevin is saying, but from the way Iām reading it, the partner program is like a referral program. The third party app developer only gets part of the Trakt VIP revenue if the user signs up for Trakt VIP in the third party app (if the user signs up on the Trakt website or Trakt app, third party apps do not get any part of that revenue). If thatās the case, then I have no problem with that. Lots of companies offer referral programs like that to help encourage third party companies/developers to grow the core business and also get a cut of that profit for their help. But if a cut of all VIP users revenue, regardless where they signed up, go to third party apps, I also strongly disagree with that for the many reasons others have listed above.
iDavide94Davide Iām not sure why you are so angry. If you have been paying $15 a year, youāve got your moneys worth. You act like youāve given Trak $100 out of the goodness of your heart.
but money from everyone ā including mine. And that money should be used to improve the core service, not to fund third-party apps.
that money you paid was for a service youāve used. You have no place to make business decisions for Trakt as a company. Trakt have been very generous to allow users to keep paying so little. And $15/y isnāt going to do anything. How often do you use the service or use the forums? that alone will cost at least $10 probably so you gave $5 for Trakt to
but money from everyone ā including mine. And that money should be used to improve the core service, not to fund third-party apps.
so you paid for one cup of coffee a year and think you have the right to demand the decisions Trakt make? Grow up. If you donāt want to pay for the service then donāt. I personally donāt think Trakt is worth it for me for $60. But I rather Trakt keep growing and one day I might think itās worth it and come back.
If you still not happy why donāt you go and create your own company and charge $15/y and see how far youāll get.
Listen, iām happy for you. I actually used Serist for a long time before Trakt had itās own app, it was a great app. But a āProduct Managementā role on Trakt is ridiculous. And so is believing in āTraktās missionā.
This is a simple website for selecting if you watched something yes or no, using mostly data from Tmdb. The owners of this website have gotten complete delusions of grandeur recently. This website does not need 20 staff members and definitely doesnāt need a $60 subscription for selecting if you watched something (which btw is a larger price than a yearly subscription to one of the streaming platforms where you can actually watch the content)
That is how it started out, and many still use it in that simplified way, but it has expanded way beyond that. That is part of the issue I guess - those that only use it as a simple tracker see less value in it than those that use it for much more than that.
For me it has become the central hub of all my viewing through our Apple TVs - it is the only option available for how we as a family manage our viewing, and from a āquality of lifeā perspective and āease of useā for anyone using the entertainment ecosystem I have built, has significant value to our household. Itās all about perspective, and how individuals use the broader set of features offered. A year ago Trakt had limited value to me, but now it is key to my ecosystem.
I get what youāre saying, but if you think about it is that really because of what Trakt offers or is it your ecosystem which just so happens to use Trakt for some part of it (like using your own media automation to import movies and shows from a list on Trakt)
I have a pretty elaborate media automation setup myself, and Trakt does have a role in this but it is minor and not something that canāt be just as easily drop-in replaced by an alternative. Itās just because iāve used Trakt for so many years that itās what iām using.
I agree that Trakt has more features than selecting what youāve watched, and overall does those things well, but the core function of this website is very simple and does not needs an entire team of staff members that users are now being asked to pay for.
My ecosystem has built over many years, and evolved to the point where itās pretty much ideal now. I long struggled to find the final piece though - the central hub through which everything could be manged in a fully integrated way on tvOS.
Iād used Trakt for a long time, but only as a tracker - the introduction of the tvOS app finally provided the missing piece that allowed for the completion of my system. One that was simple and intuitive to operate for anyone using it - where they switch on, and everything is presented to them in one app, and will āplayā it automatically (no thinking about it, switching to another app, fiddling, etc)
Iāve been through Reelgood, WatchAid, JustWatch, Plex, Kodi, etc, etc but none āunifiedā the experience. They all missed some important part of the integration I needed, were clumsy to use or poorly supported. All resulted in a visibly hybrid system, that required frequent app switching. Trakt now pretty much eliminates that for me. There is no alternative for me, to achieve what I want.
Yes, this is because of my specific use case, but I suspect many people who build their viewing around tvOS would welcome the same experience.
The majority of Trakt users simply want to track their viewed content and possibly maintain lists.
But thatās not worth $60.
I also donāt understand why they donāt offer a VIP Lite for another $30.
A few VIP features and a limit for lists to more than 100 content and number of lists in total would be enough for people to continue paying for trakt.
All the discussions for weeks have been saying that lists are important for users.
Instead, Trakt users are running away to the ugly competitor Simkl, for example. The users who regularly brought in $15 or $30 a year are falling away. Less revenue and lists that VIP users kept up to date for the community will also become inactive. Which in turn makes Trakt less attractive to the competition.
With a restriction of 100 contents in a list and a maximum of 8 lists, you wonāt keep any free users.
The result is less revenue because I havenāt read anyone who wants to keep paying $60 for Trakt.
And if you read that the $60 is necessary, then I really wonder why you donāt do a limited VIP model to keep the users, because you can add so many great features to VIP. $60 will not pay for it.
The main focus of most users is tracking and maintaining lists. Everything else are goodies and should be offered as an add-on for money.
This is not true. There was a price increase and then changes happened. One is not a consequence of the other other than the fact that Trakt is a service that lives and makes changes in terms of features, infrastructure, partnership, team,ā¦ you want to see a link between the two but thereās not.
This is not true, you are not paying for any third party apps if you are not using them in the first place!
This is not the case.
Thatās how referral links works. I get something, you get something, Trakt gets something.
I mean, yeah! Like the Public API has been helping me build an app for 7+ years and my model has always been based on freemium. Funding has nothing to do with revenue sharing in the sense you are using it. Trakt does not fund apps. Trakt shares additional revenue apps are helping getting in the first place.
Thatās okay, Iām just getting introduced here and trust will take time to rebuild.
Noted!
Canāt go back on this one. You all feel we introduced the wrong things at the same time we introduced price (and all) changes, and that is a valid feeling. We canāt just go back in time. We have a lot of things cooking. Only time will tell.
I said āat the timeā and āthings changedā. I know Justin wasnāt dishonest when he said what he said. There are reasons in the official communication. I understand how this can feel dishonest on the month scale but I am serious when I say what I said, yes.
We are still looking at the impact of all the changes we are making.
It wasnāt the intention and Justin communicated about it.
Could you imagine Prime grandfathering prices for over a decade? Could you imagine Netflix upping their price several times a year? Could you imagine Disney+ adding a bunch of sub-catalogue to their streaming offering you are never going to watch?
Do you know Trakt LITE is open source? Maybe you (or the developer you know who could handle the whole pricing and tiering in his sleep) can submit a PR to make Trakt 10x better?
Great question! I started developing in BASIC with my uncle (who was the one person helping me build a PC when I was around 13 to be able to play games). My uncle āforcedā me to learn a bit of programming because āthatās what computers are forā. This lead me a Computer Science degree. The summer I graduated, Apple announced the iPhone SDK and a friend (who was also an Apple fan-boy) told me the company where he did is thesis was hiring a student to take a look at this Apple SDK. I created my first app with Objective-C, knowing only C and Java at the time, that summer. I then worked for 9 month for a big corp doing Enterprise Java stuff and I hated that so much that I started looking at other jobs and found this small (1 dev, 3 founders) company that was running an SMS business. I was their first āmobile app developerā and I ended up building a new company from the ground up with one of the co-founders. I did that for 10 years, creating apps for others being sometimes a Product Manager, sometimes a mini-CTO, sometimes the developer. At one point, we decided, with my last team, to develop apps for ourselves and thatās how MOVIST is born. SERIST came to life not long after. Then the company had to close down and I started building Rippple as a way to complement SERIST and MOVIST. Rippple outgrew them. Now Iām here
Thatās the rub: I literally canāt think of anything Iād want that Trakt doesnāt already do. Thatās why I canāt justify the increase from $30 to $60 and canceled ā I wouldnāt be getting anything in return for paying more.
What mess? Iām kidding! It is a perception mess from the outside for the moment. Weāve been over it but:
Trakt is not in a mess
some changes take time to learn from
some changes take time to cook
we are a small team with no PR specialist or big Marketing team
we listened, we canāt communicate now because weāre not ready to
Trakt is still usable as a free user, if you want more, thereās the VIP plan. You could even use Rippple or any other third-party app that does give you more.
Younify is not a third-party in the same way, it is an integration and a provider, just like JustWatch.
I only get the kickback through ārevenue sharingā if people use my app, so, not the same.
(Sorry, but on this subject, I will answer you exactly the same each time because it is how it is.)
You donāt have the information needed to claim that. Our infrastructure costs are increasing due to multiple factors, Younify is not responsible of that.
I doāt think itās true, maybe you feel that way but some users asked for the āDropā feature, some users are happy with LITE and the tvOS app and what is to come.
Not hidingā¦ empowering, supportive and cheering for me so far!
